Got Anxiety? Break Up with It! with guest Kaitlin Soule, LMFT

As moms, we’re all a hot mess sometimes. Juggling the mental and emotional load of motherhood can  wreak havoc on our not-so-healthy goal of being the “perfect” mom. In this episode of Brainy Moms, Dr. Amy and Teri interview Kaitlin Soule, licensed marriage and family therapist,  anxiety expert, and author of the book A Little Less of A Hot Mess…The Modern Mom’s Guide to Growth and Evolution.  Kaitlin shares how we need to change the way we think about perfection in order to embrace what we truly value in life. She offers expert insights about changing our relationship with anxiety and gives moms ideas for helping our kids manage their own anxiety and worries all through a lens of personal growth.  

Read the transcript and show notes for this episode:

Episode 128
Got Anxiety? Break Up with It!
with guest Kaitlin Soule, LMFT

Dr. Amy Moore:

Hi, I’m Dr. Amy Moore, along with my co-host Teri Miller. And this is Brainy Moms. Our guest today is Kaitlin Soule. Kaitlin is a licensed marriage and family therapist, a women’s empowerment coach, an anxiety expert, and author. She’s focused her career on providing innovative and evidence-based treatment for anxiety disorders, depression, OCD, and trauma, and helping people change the thinking and behavioral patterns that are keeping them stuck from living well.

Teri Miller:

So glad to have you here, Kaitlin.

Kaitlin Soule:

Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be on.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. Well, I would love for you to tell our listeners just your story. How did you get into this? Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Kaitlin Soule:

Sure. Yeah. I’m a mom to three kids and I am a wife to a first responder. And I think that has a lot to do with it because when we were first dating and I was working in the field of TV, in reality TV actually, I kept thinking about how much he loved his job and how much he felt like, as a firefighter, first responder, he was making an impact on people’s lives, even though he wouldn’t use those words, I would. And I decided I really wanted to do something with my life that I could truly say I was making a difference. And so I had always thought about psychology and becoming a therapist. And I decided to take the leap and go back to graduate school at 28. Went to graduate school, became a therapist, loved the field of helping others and specializing in anxiety disorders kind of became my passion.

Kaitlin Soule:

After doing that for a certain amount of time, still what I do in my private practice, I started thinking about how it’s not just people with diagnosable mental health disorders that actually could use some help, some tips and tools, some support around their mental health and personal growth. And that’s where I thought about creating Well Notes By Kaitlin, which is really my coaching platform. It’s really where I host my podcast and what led to me thinking about writing the book for moms.

Kaitlin Soule:

So I’ve shifted my focus in my coaching world to really specialize in modern moms, working with them to help them feel empowered and work on their own personal growth and evolution. I kind of say, say yes to themselves before everyone and everything else, because so often, we as moms, end up putting everything else first and end up suffering for it. So that’s where I am today. I’m in the process of raising three small kids. Just finished my first book, which is available. It’s online now, we can talk about that later. And I’m running my practice and trying to do all the things.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Awesome. So I want to dig in a little bit about this mental and emotional load of motherhood. And you’re focused on helping moms deal with that. So talk to us about that phenomenon and ways we can manage it.

Kaitlin Soule:

Yeah. That’s a big question, right? I feel like part of what makes us easier for me to think about so often is that I’m living it. I say this a lot is I’m not coming up above anyone, like I’m the expert telling you how to be a mom and how to handle all the stress. I’m like, yeah, I get it. I’m in it too. And here’s what’s worked for me and here’s what I can point to, having had experience in being in the field of psychology. So I always say I’m coming up alongside moms, not above them. And the mental and emotional weight of motherhood, it’s so much, right? And now more than ever with the pandemic and with so much of the stuff falling on us, whether it be who’s going to watch the kids, who’s going to take care of your schooling, who’s going to get them from point A to point B, how am I going to get my work done from home, right?

Kaitlin Soule:

All of those things are falling on us more than ever. They already were before the pandemic. This isn’t new, but I think the pandemic has really shed a light on everything that women and moms do. And so when we talk about the mental and emotional weight, I think it’s all the things that people don’t see. That’s the best way I can think of it. It’s like the kids get to school, they’re dressed, they’re ready, they’re fed. You get to work, your husband gets off to his job, the pet is groomed, whatever it is. But a lot of what people don’t recognize, and a lot of times men don’t recognize who aren’t moms is all the stuff that goes on in between, all the planning, all the worrying, all the thinking.

Kaitlin Soule:

So that’s what I consider. It’s not the real official definition, but that’s what I consider the mental and emotional weight of motherhood or at least part of it. And the second part of your question was how do we deal with it, right? What can we do about it? Gosh, that’s the million dollar question. And I do talk about that quite a bit in my book.

Kaitlin Soule:

But the big thing I say and what I said in the beginning of this is saying yes to yourself before everyone and everything else. That could look like saying yes to reaching out for help if you need help with childcare, if you need help around the house, if you can afford it. And if you can’t, is there a family member or a friend or somebody who can help you. It could look like saying yes to making that therapy appointment. It could look like having that conversation with your partner about needing them to help out more. Could look like going for a quiet walk. It could just look so many things, so many things that we tend to not do because we feel like we shouldn’t, or we feel guilty about doing it.

Teri Miller:

I think we feel selfish a lot, like what you’re talking about it. I think that’s the knee jerk reaction as a mom, “Oh, put myself first? Yeah, right. Can’t do that. That’s selfish. Everyone else comes before me.” But then there’s nothing left. Then we can’t give to anyone else because we’re just a wreck. Like your phrase, we’re just a big, hot mess.

Kaitlin Soule:

Yes. That was coined by me because I am a hot mess.

Teri Miller:

Aren’t we all? Exactly.

Dr. Amy Moore:

So I want to ask about that, not the book yet. But is there a role that our expectations are playing in that weight, that expectation that we put on ourselves?

Kaitlin Soule:

Absolutely. You’re right. I spoke to the stuff that people don’t see, the world’s expectations. But then there’s the other side of it, which is probably the biggest part of it is the expectations that we put on ourselves, that role of perfectionism in motherhood and how that comes up for us. And a lot of that is because we learned these narratives as young children about what it meant to be good, a good girl, and then a good woman and a good mom. And those narratives become our beliefs. And that becomes our self-talk. And so we tend to put so much pressure on ourselves to be everything in every arena. So I definitely think that has a huge impact on how we feel and how burnt out we are and how overwhelmed we become.

Dr. Amy Moore:

So then how do you know what the barometer should be? Like if you say, my expectations for myself are just way too high, I can not live up to them, but how do you know where to set those?

Kaitlin Soule:

So it’s a good question, right? So what I come back to and what I think you guys could probably resonate with being in psychology, being in the field, is what are your values? Because so often we’re told how we should be, what it should look like. But this whole idea of personal growth to me is about learning to turn inwards before we turn outward. So what is it that I want or need, what lines up with my values. I think if we come back to doing some good old fashioned values determination work, what’s important to me as a person, what’s important to me as a mom, what’s important in my relationship, what’s important in my career, then we can really develop these, they call them guideposts, as to how we want to be in the world. How do we want a mother? How do we want to be in our relationship? How do we want to just be? And so I think the values piece is huge. Coming back to what is it that you value, not what you think you should value.

Dr. Amy Moore:

I love that distinction.

Teri Miller:

Yes. Oh, yeah. That’s a big one. Should, the shoulds that just are a burden on our shoulders as moms. I think you nailed it. It’s not just the shoulds that we feel from the world. It’s the shoulds that simmer inside us, that are from when we were growing up. Maybe it was the world’s influence, but a lot of times it was just our family of origin and even our siblings and aunts and uncles and things we saw, good or bad. So that creates a lot of anxiety. And that leads me to the next thing I’d love for you to talk about is just that as moms, we have so much anxiety, anxious thoughts, worries and fears about how we’re not measuring up. And so you talk about breaking up with anxiety or how to break up with anxiety. So talk to us about that.

Kaitlin Soule:

Yeah. So I thought that was just kind of a fun way to look at it. But what I always say first is that breaking up with anxiety is not about getting rid of anxiety. We just aren’t going to be able to do that. Anxiety is a natural, normal human emotion. But anxiety does become problematic when we allow it to take the wheel or control the narrative. Lots of different ways to say that.

Kaitlin Soule:

So when I talk about breaking up with anxiety, what I mean is changing your relationship with anxiety or worry so that it doesn’t get to be in charge. And so I like to think of it in this playful way of ending a toxic relationship. Maybe it’s not playful, because that’s probably pretty traumatic. But ending a toxic relationship with an ex or something like that. And so that ex is still going to unfortunately exist in the world and you maybe have to see him at the grocery store or whatever, or online these days. But you are going to have to learn how to co-exist in a world where they exist. So I think of anxiety in that same way. If we can learn to just co-exist with it and let it be there and spend less time trying to resist it and push it away, the better off we are and the better we can cope with it.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Do you point moms to the idea that you can actually harness that, that there’s an optimal level of anxiety that actually helps us perform better? Do you see that they would embrace that idea?

Kaitlin Soule:

That’s a good point. I think that that’s the kind of anxiety that we know, the anxiety of like, oh, before a test or before a job interview or before I go to that new person’s house. And so I think we recognize that kind of anxiety and sometimes it is looked at as bad. But you make a good point is that, that is just energy and that can help us prepare and be ready and do our best. And so there’s absolutely a positive side to anxiety. Otherwise, like I said, well I don’t know if I said this, but it’s important to note that anxiety is critical to our survival. Right? And so it has these very primal origins, of course. So it’s critical to our survival, it can be incredibly helpful. And yes, I think it’s important for women to know that and to know the difference between helpful anxiety, anxieties that’s helping them prepare and get ready, and then the noisy chatter that just keeps them feeling stuck.

Teri Miller:

Paralyzed, yeah. It’s that idea that the opposite of stress to think that, “Oh, I’m going to get rid of all anxiety. I’m going to get rid of all stress.” Well, the opposite of stress is atrophy, is death. It’s like when you break your arm, if you’ve ever had a kid, I had several kids have a greenstick fracture of their lower arm and they get that cast on and they’re in the cast for six weeks or however long. And those muscles just shrink down, it atrophies because they’re not using that arm at all. They’re not stressing it. And so stress, when you’re stressing a muscle, working out whatever, that stress is life, is growth. And the opposite of stress is death, atrophy, nothing.

Kaitlin Soule:

Yeah.

Teri Miller:

It’s got to be there.

Kaitlin Soule:

It has to be there. It’s critical. Yeah.

Dr. Amy Moore:

So talk a little bit about anxiety that you’re seeing in teens, particularly teen girls. What are you seeing and what’s the problem and what’s the answer?

Kaitlin Soule:

Yeah. I think it’s been there just like I keep saying because of the pandemic or in light of the pandemic. But it’s important to note that before the pandemic, I think that young girls, especially we know, I don’t know the stat off the top of my head, but that women experience anxiety more often than men or at least they report it. So who knows? But the point is young girls start to experience anxiety when it comes to social perfectionism, image, school performance, so much. And I’m really seeing that right now in the midst of the pandemic amplified because the pressure, well, one, because they weren’t in person school for so long and now they’re having to go back into person school and face their fears.

Kaitlin Soule:

They didn’t get practice. They’ve kind of forgot how to show up in those situations. So when we are able to avoid the things that make us feel anxious, like going to school or taking tests and things like that, we get out of practice. So it makes a lot of sense to me that our young girls, especially, are experiencing more anxiety these days. And then also just all the social pressure. Social media, thank goodness was not a thing yet when I was in high school. It’s such a gift in some ways and also such a detriment to constantly have, for these girls particularly when it comes to anxiety, I think the social anxiety piece is huge because they’re constantly being looked at or judged or compared.

Dr. Amy Moore:

So what can parents do to help?

Kaitlin Soule:

There’s a lot of things. And I think that one of the most important things is just to talk, to be open and communicate that there are these pressures in the world today, in that these things exist and that they don’t expect their child, their girl, whoever it is, to be perfect. And that if they ever need to talk to them about anything or anyone, they can. So keep those lines of communication open. And then as far as pressures go around academics and performance, remember that I think we as parents and parents sometimes get really caught up in the, oh, this is their moment, this is their chance. And it’s true. High school is very important. But remember that this is just a piece of their story, that by no means is them getting a C on a test mean that they’re going to be unsuccessful in life.

Kaitlin Soule:

So a lot of times we, as parents, catastrophize. We jump to a worst case scenarios. So watch your own behaviors, I would say, around catastrophizing and thinking of worst case scenario. Check yourself, right? And then the other thing I would say is if we’re talking more about social anxiety, definitely be aware of what’s going on in social media and be monitoring it if you can, and having lots of conversations. And model the fact that it’s okay to reach out for help, and if they need therapy and you can help them access it, that’s great.

Teri Miller:

I think that’s a really big one that I see as a beautiful result out of the pandemic is we’re seeing more and more acceptance of women, people, humanity, kids reaching out for help, for mental health help. Yeah, I love that you are speaking that. Your message really gives attention to that, that it’s okay that we all need therapy. I have a 24 year old daughter who is stepping, she’s dipping her toe into the psychology world in college, in her master’s program. And that’s her mantra too, just like you have talked about is, “Hey, we all need therapy. We should all eat healthy and work out at the gym,” and she says all these things. And why do we think we don’t need mental health? We go to the doctor for well checkups every year and get our lady parts checked. We need to get our lady heads checked.

Kaitlin Soule:

Right. It’s so true. Yes. And some of us aren’t even good about getting our lady parts checked. Yeah, good point.

Dr. Amy Moore:

So I want to go back to the anxiety piece with our kids. What do you see with younger children? Because it has to look different, right?

Kaitlin Soule:

I am mostly seeing that fear of going back to school. So I would say school avoidance, school anxiety, because of what I said before, the fact that it’s just totally new to them again. Remember, their lives have been relatively short, right? And so when they lose a whole year or year and a half of in-person instruction or even if they were in-person at school, being around groups of kids and learning how to navigate that has felt harder. And I think especially if they already struggle with anxiety, it’s now amplified, for a lot of kids.

Kaitlin Soule:

One interesting thing I want to note is that I have seen a lot of my clients who had struggled with anxiety disorders before the pandemic. It’s almost like they had a leg up in a way because they knew how to deal with uncertainty better than the everyday people who didn’t struggle with anxiety, who were like, “What’s this? What’s uncertainty? Oh my gosh, I have to be with this.” Right? So it’s an interesting thing where I think where I said earlier, if you had an anxiety disorder, then it’s worse now. I don’t actually think that’s true. I think it’s more of what I’m seeing is the people who were experiencing it for the first time. And that goes for kiddos too.

Dr. Amy Moore:

So if you have a small child or elementary age, let’s say, who’s resisting going back to school or you’re seeing signs that it’s very stressful for them, what can we say to them to help allay some of that anxiety?

Kaitlin Soule:

Yeah. So I think a couple of things to look out for, because it doesn’t always look like them saying, “I don’t want to go to school” or crying. It can look like saying, “I have a headache. I have a stomach ache. I don’t feel well.” It can look like a lot of somatic sensations and feelings. So it can be confusing for parents as to what’s going on. So start to ask the questions like, “What are you feeling? Are you worried about something? Can I help you?” So definitely, again, conversations, start with the conversation. Normalize it. Use an analogy. I think this is really great with kids. If they play a sport, it’s like when you were learning to play basketball, you had to learn how to dribble before you got good at it, right?

Kaitlin Soule:

It’s like we have to relearn how to be in social situations. And we do that by going to school. So talking about it, giving them analogies to understand how the process works. And then also, as hard as it is, try not to get into their asks to stay home because the longer they stay home and the more they avoid it, the harder it gets to go back. So even if you can make an agreement with them that they’re just going to go for two hours today or the first part. Whatever it is, that gradual re-entrance is going to be really helpful in anything you can do to help them move towards their fear instead of away.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Typically we don’t want parents to reward children for behavior that we expect. Right? We just want to give those rewards for the above and beyond things. But is this a special circumstance where we might want to introduce a reward system when there’s some school anxiety happening?

Kaitlin Soule:

Absolutely. And I say this in my practice all the time. I am a huge fan of reward systems. Adults reward themselves all the time. Right? We think of kids as, we shouldn’t give them a sticker for that because it wasn’t that. It’s like we reward ourselves all the time. We have the power to do that. So I really think that if they are modeling brave behavior, and that’s anything that’s going towards their fear instead of away from it, give them a reward. But the hard part is figuring out what’s going to be rewarding for them. And I think that’s an important conversation to have first.

Dr. Amy Moore:

And it shouldn’t be sugar.

Kaitlin Soule:

No. Right, right. Well, I mean.

Teri Miller:

That’s such a good idea. I’m sitting here thinking if the goal is, “Hey, let’s see if we can get through this week all the way to Friday with you. We’re going to breathe together in the morning,” whatever tactic it is, “So that when you get out for school, you don’t feel quite so upset.” I’m sitting here thinking for my own child, my own nine-year-old daughter who has definitely had some back to school anxiety and some behaviors that have come out, not just like you’re saying Kaitlin, they’ve come out in non-typical ways. She hasn’t said, “I hate school,” she hasn’t cried, but there’s just some very resistant, fearful behavior things happening. And I’m thinking, okay, instead of if you can go to school without throwing a fit every morning when you’re deciding what to put on. No, because that’s still focusing on the negative. If I can just say, “Hey, let’s see if we can have a joyful morning every day this week. And if we can, then on Friday morning, how about let’s have,” whatever, she likes cheesy grits. That’s a Saturday breakfast. “How about Friday morning, I’ll make you cheesy grits?”

Kaitlin Soule:

Yes.

Dr. Amy Moore:

So how long should that interval be, between the behavior and the reward, particularly for young kids? Is the week too long?

Kaitlin Soule:

I think that with the younger children in particular, there needs to be shorter rewards. So it needs to be later that day. Right? For older kids, our 12 year old and up, I think waiting to the end of the week is just fine. But certainly younger kiddos, I would say something needs to happen that afternoon or that evening that they can get excited for. And that’s a good point because a lot of parents, and I’ve done that too, I forget about that and then they end up not being able to hold their end of the deal because they can’t. They don’t have that sense of time in order to be able to know, okay, well if I just do this, then by Friday I’ll get my reward.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. And I think it’s also important to note that if you’re going to institute a reward system, particularly with younger kids and you’re going to reward them every day, that eventually you have to get to the point where you stretch out those rewards, right? Because you’re not going to be able to sustain rewarding your child every day for the rest of their year. So you’ll have to start doing every two days and then every three days and then every four days or something like that. So I just wanted to leave parents with that so that they don’t get stuck in this daily reward cycle when they don’t need it anymore, once the routine is re-established.

Kaitlin Soule:

Yes. And remember, rewards don’t have to be monetary. They can be, like you were saying, cooking something that they love or going to the park together. One-on-one time, we often forget that that’s all kids really actually really want is one-on-one time with a parent or an adult. So that can be a reward too.

Teri Miller:

That’s good. My little girl, I recently discovered, it wasn’t just that she wanted to go to the park, this cool playground that’s near her house, she wanted to take me by the hand and lead me all through the wooden stuff. And here was the weird thing. I had never, ever done it with any of my children. I’ve been to that playground area with all my kids, and I’ve got a lot of them. The older ones are in their twenties now. And I had never climbed up the teeny little narrow step areas to the top of the turret and looked out. It was five minutes. And so that was golden. And yeah. So for listeners to remember what you just said, that one-on-one time, sometimes that can just be pure magic.

Kaitlin Soule:

Yes, yes. Absolutely. That special time.

Teri Miller:

All right. What have we got next, Amy?

Dr. Amy Moore:

You talk about the importance of routines. Why are routines so critical for kids and how can we support those?

Kaitlin Soule:

Well, I think routines, and routines within reason, right? And here’s what I mean by that. It’s just like I tell moms when we talk about self care and all this, it doesn’t have to be perfect in order for it to be worthy. So routines are something that we set in order for kids to be able to know or at least have an idea of what’s coming next. And that can help kids feel safer in the world, it can help them eliminate some anxiety around them having to think about what’s going on that day. So routines are important. But the other side of routines are routines can also increase, or let me say this, can feed anxiety sometimes because kids get so stuck on a certain routine that then if you change the routine or change it up, they start to feel anxious. So I think that’s where I say within reason, routines are really important for most kids. But for kids who struggle with anxiety in particular, I also think that’s important to change things up, to increase that psychological flexibility by changing things up sometimes.

Teri Miller:

Can you give a practical example? Use your kids as an example, maybe your family or fabricate a family. Give our listeners are really clear example of what would that look like, a Monday through Friday kind of thing? What are some examples of good routines? And then, where could we break that up?

Kaitlin Soule:

Yes, yeah. Let’s use something in my family because that’s the first thing coming to my mind is that we don’t always have dinner at exactly 5:30. We try and have dinner between 5:30 and six because I have one three-year-old still and the girls are six and seven. And then we go upstairs, we take a bath or shower and then they do their grooming, whatever their teeth. And then we get in bed and we have what I call book club and book time. And sometimes, everyone’s asleep by 7:30. Sometimes it’s not till 8:30. But the point is, I know that’s a big window, but that’s just real because kids aren’t robots, just like we aren’t. We can’t fall asleep like that. Sometimes it takes us time too. So setting up a system where there is some flexibility within that system, but at least we know where we’re headed. And I think that really helps kids, like I said, feel safe and secure. But it’s also important to have some wiggle room in there.

Teri Miller:

It’s good, yeah. So the consistency, but without being militant.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Or rigid, right.

Kaitlin Soule:

Yes.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Okay. So we need to take a break and let Teri read a word from our sponsor. And when we come back, we want to hear about your new book.

Kaitlin Soule:

Awesome.

Teri Miller: (reading sponsor ad from LearningRx)

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Dr. Amy Moore:

And we’re back talking to Kaitlin Soule, marriage and family therapist and anxiety expert. And Kaitlin, you have a brand new book coming out and I love the title, A Little Less of a Hot Mess: The Modern Mom’s Guide to Growth and Evolution. We want to hear all about your book.

Kaitlin Soule:

Awesome. Thanks. Yeah, it has been a journey. This is my first book that I’ve ever written. I started writing it in January of 2021, right after the pandemic, or the first year of the pandemic. And I really felt like I needed somewhere to put all my thoughts and feelings out on paper about what it is to be a modern mom and how to help women and moms like me navigate these pressures that we have and how to work on ourselves. So I didn’t really know what the book was going to look like. I teamed up with an awesome publisher who really helped me from start to finish. It’s been an incredible journey and I’m so excited.

Kaitlin Soule:

It comes out in March of 2015. It is basically, I call it a love note to moms everywhere to invite them into their own process of personal growth and evolution. Each chapter is a different invitation into growth and evolution. And then at the end of the chapter, of course being the therapist and all, I bring in some sort of journal prompt, reflection, or exercise, they can do to understand the material better and put it into practice.

Teri Miller:

Okay. So March 2022. And people can pre-order that now through your website?

Kaitlin Soule:

Actually on Amazon is best right now. And then soon it’ll be on my website as well.

Teri Miller:

Nice. Well, I love the message that I experienced from you. I just want to share with listeners what I have gleaned and feel like I’m picking up from Kaitlin. And it’s this perspective that we don’t have to get it all together before we’re living life, before we’re doing life, before we’re pursuing a master’s degree, before we’re getting a job, before we’re being a volunteer at the school, driving a carpool. I think as moms, we waste a lot of time, I know I did, thinking I have to get it all together before, before I can do whatever. I can’t be a hot mess and do anything effective. And I see that you’re communicating this message, “Hey, we’re all a hot mess.” Maybe I can learn how to be a little less of a hot mess, but I can be doing life well in the meantime. Am I getting it?

Kaitlin Soule:

I hope I’m putting that message into the world. But that’s exactly what I hope to be saying and that’s how I truly feel. I said this to somebody recently, I’m really good at taking imperfect action. Do I always get it right? No. But I’m really good at that. And I want to be able to share that with other moms, because I had a lot of shame around that stuff for a long time of, I just did this and it was so embarrassing or I don’t know if I’m that good at it. But for some reason I did it anyways. And now that I’m growing into my role as mom and therapist, I’m like, “You know what? This is me, this is who I am.” And it’s such a better place to live from. It feels so much better and more whole. So thank you, yes.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. My boss says the secret to success is that you don’t have to be ready, you just have to be willing.

Kaitlin Soule:

That’s beautiful.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah. And I love that because life doesn’t begin once we get to A, B and C or once we accomplish A, B and C, right? We’re living life now and we’re missing the opportunity to experience the joy in the journey if we wait until we’re perfect, because that’s never going to happen this side of heaven. It’s just not going to happen.

Kaitlin Soule:

Exactly.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Yeah.

Teri Miller:

I love it. It made me think Amy, that Kim, your boss, also says, she says, “Be interesting. Don’t be perfect.” And I love that too. If I just have to be perfect and have to have all my ducks in a row before I do anything at all, I’m really not going to be effective because nobody can achieve that. And so it’s just this cartoon character. But can I just be interesting self and just launch into it? I love that. Say that phrase again. You’re good at taking?

Kaitlin Soule:

Imperfect action.

Teri Miller:

It’s so good.

Kaitlin Soule:

It’s a better way to say I’m kind of a hot mess.

Teri Miller:

It’s great. I want to direct listeners, when you get a chance, not right now while you are driving your car. Okay, listeners? Don’t do it now. Don’t pull this up on your phone right now. So wait until you’re home or maybe you’ll listen to this and pull up the show notes, but Well Notes By Kaitlin is the website and it’s Kaitlin, Kaitlin. And when you go to shop, I just loved this. I looked at this just a little bit ago, and there are the most wonderful little items on here with wonderful sayings that would make great gifts to encourage another mom in your life, or I’m going to venture out and say, encourage yourself.

Teri Miller:

I want to order this this mug that says, “But first, therapy.” It’s a coffee mug. Instead of, but first coffee, but first therapy. There’s a little tote that says, “I go to therapy and you should too.” And there’s a hot mess. There’s a coffee mug that it’s got the word anxious on there and it’s crossed out and above, in cursive, it says courageous. So just really sweet items I’d encourage you, if you want a really encouraging gift for another mom, maybe a teacher, just great items there. And Kaitlin, you can do a 20% discount.

Kaitlin Soule:

Yes. I would love to give your listeners 20% off. And it’s really the idea behind this is to lift women up, whether it’s yourself or somebody you love, just these little love notes and ways to help us remember who we are.

Dr. Amy Moore:

I love that. Yeah. Well, we are out of time and need to wrap up. But this has been a really great conversation. And Kaitlin, I just want to thank you for giving our listeners so many actionable tips, right? Some insight into what our kids might be experiencing, what moms might be experiencing and that we can normalize that and be in that space and feel a little bit more comfortable with those emotions that we’re feeling. So thank you for being with us today. If you’d like to connect with Kaitlin, you can visit her website, like Teri said, it’s wellnotesbykaitlin.com. And we will put her social media handles and a link to her website along with a discount code in the show notes. Kaitlin is also offering 10% off of her audio course with a coaching session. You want to tell us about that real fast? We forgot to ask you.

Kaitlin Soule:

It’s for people who struggle with persistent worry or anxiety, it’s a mini audio course. I pulled together all my best tips for helping people cope with anxiety. It’s based in cognitive behavioral therapy. It’s a real quick but impactful listen. And then with that, I’m offering, so you could buy just that or you can also purchase that with one coaching session where you actually get to meet with me virtually and talk about the course and any questions you have, and I can help you make a plan for moving forward.

Dr. Amy Moore:

Awesome. So lots of great stuff and discounts, listeners. So thank you so much for listening today. If you like our podcast, we would love it if you would leave us a five star rating or review on Apple Podcasts. You can also watch us on YouTube. So follow us on social media @thebrainymoms. And look, we know that you’re busy moms and we’re busy moms. So we are out.

Teri Miller:

See ya.

Kaitlin Soule:

Bye-bye.

 

Show Notes:
Kaitlin’s website: http://www.wellnotesbykaitlin.com

Connect with Kaitlin on social media: @wellnotesbykaitlin

Pre-Order her book,  A Little Less of A Hot Mess…The Modern Mom’s Guide to Growth and Evolution

Special Offer for Brainy Moms listeners:
20% of my “Break up With Anxiety” 6 session coaching package
10% off of my audio course + coaching session 
20% off store items